TVSquad

What the hell is an active television watcher , a channel surfer?

You just hate dumb people. Admit it.

I think people have progressed far enough to stop calling the differences between black and white racism.

I know I would see it completely different if I were black but then again what's the difference between black and white, woman and man, rich and poor? Would you call it "racist" that women are still paid less than men if they are working the same exact job? Is it "racist" that 2% of the population own 85% of the money?

I know there are racists out there. But there's a difference between genetically encoded behavior (fearing everything that is not like oneself) and the process of hating everything that is different than oneself.

And honestly I think african americans are on the right way to be just as opressed as women in the US. You know, here in germany we have a population of 82 million, 5 million of those are from turkey. I live in a mixed environment in my hometown, where a lot of old people lived and after a while moslim turks moved in when those died instead of young germans - because they couldn't stand living next to "those old people". What would you call that then? "Ageism"?

I really don't understand why people are so keen on underlining that yes, we all hate each other and hammer it into our heads day in and day out. My point is simply that as long as it's been repeated over and over and over and especially because of unfounded stuff like this, it will never go away.

If you ask me the problem on Lost is not Michael getting killed off. I still think that even though there were people from Korea on that plane I miss a lot of other ethnicities. There's ONE guy from Britain who most fortunately speaks english (of course) and one guy from Iraq. Where are the Aussies on that plane? Or New Zealanders? Germans? Frenchmen? Overall more people from Europe are missing from the list of folks on board or better: characters who appear on the show.

The problem is: you can _always_ say it's racist and I'm sorry that I call that ridiculous.

And the reason why I comment so frequently on this thread is because I love the Show and I found the remarks Perinneau made after leaving the show the first time ridiculous to start with. He behaved like a princess and that's where the comparison with I. Washington stems from (at least Perinneau is not a homophobe).

The Washington story, to be honest, is a whole other deal. That was even more ridiculous with two interest-groups battling each other so I guess it was wrong from me to say it's similar here. It definitely isn't.

And again yes I couldn't understand the situation in the US and no I am not racist towards black people because germany is basically like Wisconsin - you have a hard time finding colored people on the streets. So if I were racist it would have to be towards turks, people from Poland, England (they have garrisons in my town) et cetera.

And honestly I really don't hate people from other ethnicities. I hate people who behave like assholes towards me and to be honest that's a group that usually is very diverse through all age groups and races. People are selfish. People are anti-social. And capitalism isn't helping with those problems either.

You're right. I do hate stupid people.

I considered not replying, but since you said you care about Lost, I figured I should show the respect of responding with what I care about as well, especially because I had the gall to call you out by name.

There are NO inherent differences between black or white, man or woman, rich and poor. Race is about as genetically significant as the colour of your hair. But people attach behaviours to skin colour and make them significant, also acting on the unacknowledged assumption that these differences in behaviour are natural. It's how EVERYONE operates on this planet. What we see and grow up with is what we think is natural until we start challenging status quos.

This insistence that we are different has MATERIAL effects. That is why people HAVE to point out racism, sexism, classism, homophobia when they see it. If we don't, the material changes will not occur. True equality will not be achieved unless we change our behaviours and assumptions.

If you are heterosexual, white, male, middle or upper-class and so on, it is less likely for you to recognize instances of homophobia, racism, sexism, and classism. Do you know why? Because we live in a world of quaint categories that are placed into a hierarchy, rich is privileged over poor, white skin over darker skin, heterosexuality over homosexuality, men over women. A part of that hierarchy means that those at the top don't get to see the negative effects because they are the ones benefiting from being at the top. It's not "racist" when you're pointing out pay inequity between men and women, you're pointing out sexism. Classism exists between the rich and poor. The same goes for your point about ageism. Elderly are not exactly valued in most industrial societies because they are seen as non-workers, so capitalism can't thrive on their labour).

What you're not realizing and what was frustrating me earlier (and prompted my comment) was that you're not seeing that racism is a system that operates on more than an individual level. Our institutions are built on racist ideologies and continue to work that way - white skin gets privilege in representation and material effects. One person can't change an institution. It's going to take a long time.

Thanks to globalization, there's now a global hierarchy of race, and it's become even more difficult to challenge racism because it does not manifest in a blatant way. Racism is not always a conscious action. Most people don't go around saying, "I hate black people" but it does not mean that they don't behave differently towards and around blacks. It's implicit and subtle, which makes it incredibly difficult to challenge. You may charge that you are not "a racist", even towards Turks, but you are a part of a racist system that will give you more material benefits than someone with a darker skin colour.

Ignoring it does not make it go away. Since when has doing NOTHING ever changed inequality? If we ignore inequalities, they will fester and continue infecting us. You say that people are keen on underlining that we hate each other, but it is not so simple. Minorities do not want to underline that they are being hated on. It is a dangerous move. A career breaker. A life breaker. To call out on racism, sexism, and so on as a member of the minority group is costly, especially when you're doing it within your industry. If minorities don't point out that there is racism, how is anyone supposed to know? A white person isn't going to wake up one day and realize "oh hey, I wonder why I hold my purse tighter when a black kid walks past me?"

I'm not even going to address any problems on Lost, but in my experience as a television watcher, North American television on the whole has a problem with minorities. They are consistently relegated to undeveloped roles or death. Of course, more white people are killed off on television all the time. But when you think about it in proportions, there are far more successful white actors in the industry than minority actors. The chances of a minority character being mishandled is incredibly high, and not always showcased through death. Their character development is skimped on, they aren't used enough, or they just aren't given interesting storylines so that viewers don't bat an eye.

The problem does not lie with just Lost. It's an industry problem. Media is not separate from our prejudices that we have grown up with. Writers, directors, producers, actors, they're all people too. People can harp on about being liberal or conservative or 'colour blind', but it does not undo the fact that we live in a world where there is a hierarchy of race, class, gender, sexuality, ability, and yes, age.

These hierarchies have MATERIAL effects in representation and ACCESS to resources. It's difficult for a minority actor to get a foot in the door, and once they do, their chances of being on a successful television show with decent characterization drops immensely. The solution is not to try and cram as many minorities into one show or to get representation of "everyone" (see: Heroes). The show would just end up with terrible characterization, and most likely the minority actors will portray negative stereotypes.

I can't even talk about Perrineau's relationship with the show in terms of what his contract was like or what have you. Obviously black people can be a$$holes too. Isaiah Washington was a massive one.

This doesn't mean he didn't make a valid comment about his characterization. There's a history of this type of characterization being RAMPANT. I concluded many years ago that it's dangerous to be a black male character on television (it's different for black women on TV).

It's also important to recognize that race and gender and sexuality and class are not separate from each other. One can be a middle-class black person, or a Chinese lesbian woman, or a disabled white male, or a working class white woman, so on and so on. They interact in different ways. You can have privilege in your race and still be disadvantaged in other ways, which is what happened with Isaiah Washington. He may be black, but he's also heterosexual. He probably experienced racism sometime in his work in television, but he still holds the privilege of being straight.

I want to say again that racism, sexism, classism, and homophobia are not always about outright hatred. So you don't hate anyone because of their ethnicity. Most people are like you. Not a lot of people hate. Every time your life gets a little bit easier, you're not going to notice it if it's because of your skin colour. But while you get something a little easier, someone with darker skin gets it a little harder. Because you can't see it does not mean there is no racism. We don't even NOTICE it because we want to be like you, Bash, and pretend it doesn't happen. We want to be good little liberals and pretend we are never implicated in anything. It's too dangerous to do that and we have to start recognizing it otherwise nothing will change.

well. If you really look at it, most of the people that run the entertainment business are white. People like to cast within their own race. Black producers, directors, etc. tend to have a predominately black cast. And a lot of times, the few white characters usually play very stereotypical roles. The people who make these shows and movies are, for the most part, white. So of course they automatically choose white actors. If there were more minority filmmakers, things might be different, and probably would. It takes more than one person to write the script and i'm sure that no harm was intended. I think it just kind of depends on who is actually making the movie.

We should just let Spike Lee do all the directing...He gets it

Nate, slavery was the problem in the past that has had a domino effect on the present. It is not so much about blaming others for our problems as it is about us understanding how we got to where we are today. Whether Perrineau is right or wrong he still has a right to voice what he feels is an injustice. The pathetic thing would be to feel like you have been wronged and say nothing about it.

Nice to see that you consider someone who murdered three people and back-stabbed his friends a good father. Yeah I see it now too. Michael was such a good guy he needed forgiveness for being so selfish. What a great example he is. *eyeroll*

Seriously, I would not mind Michael returning to the show, especially if Walt has a special gift of some sort (like Hurley who now talks to dead people like the new guy). I would love to see him making peace with his father after he sacrificed himself and therefor redeemed himself.

But honestly, without dying Michael wouldn't have gotten his redemption and wouldn't have been a good father - or better a father who did horrible things and now did good to even the score. Please don't say he's one of the good guys, because he clearly wasn't up until the explosion of the boat.