Quick, what do the following TV shows have in common: The Dick Van Dyke Show, Twilight Zone, The Andy Griffith Show, M*A*S*H, Mystery Science Theater 3000, and The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson?
Answer: they're not on Empire Magazine's list of the 50 best greatest TV shows of all-time. Let the arguments begin!
Of course, being a British publication, Empire is going to have some shows on the list that we here in America probably wouldn't have: Father Ted, Cracker, Spaced, Red Dwarf, and Only Fools and Horses. But I don't care if you live in the jungles of Africa or on the moon, there's no way that a list of the 50 best shows in TV history can not include the shows I mentioned in the question above. It seems that all these lists you find on the web of the best TV shows is some sort of weird combination of what shows are the quality shows, what shows get buzz and a hipness factor, and what shows get ratings. And when you do that, you end up like Empire's list: you don't include The Mary Tyler Moore Show but you have room for THREE Star Trek shows and Prison Break. I don't understand how they can have so many recent shows on an "all-time" list.
There's a lot to like on the list though, of course, including Lost, The West Wing, The X-Files, and the surprise inclusion of Alias. (By the way, there's no way to see the whole list on one page, you have to click page by page - ugh.)
There's also a severe lack of music/variety/talk shows on the list.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
5-01-2008 @ 8:19AM
Gordy said...
No need to argue really, since it's a Brit pub. However, I refuse to click through 50 unique pages. Who has that kind of time...at work?
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5-01-2008 @ 8:54AM
Karen said...
Gordy's right; their house, their rules. For all you know, MTM never even played in Britain. There really aren't too many titles I'd support taking off there (even ones I don't watch, like Alias, 24, Lost, and Prison Break--I understand that some people care for them quite a bit), and there's no WAY you can't include Spaced, Life on Mars, and Father Ted. It's a sin that more Americans haven't seen these shows. You can't even get the first two on Region 1 DVDs yet.
The real problem might be that they limited the list to 50.
It's impressive how much sci-fi makes it onto the list, isn't it? The Brits do love the outer space...
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5-01-2008 @ 11:21AM
lucyfan62 said...
SPACED has been announced for DVD release here in the States, but that list is still a bit current to be called the Best TV Shows of All Time! What, they didn't have TV before 1970? I'm sure they've seen some of our classic shows from the 50s that laid the groundwork for the shows on that list (i.e. I Love Lucy), so I just think the list was put together by a bunch of young people at a movie magazine who don't respect the history of television.
5-01-2008 @ 8:59AM
MosquitoControl72 said...
I mostly refuse to click page by page. It's a huge hassle for readers, sacrificing readability and time for google ad views.
Nope.
I actually got into a big argument with a newspaper's web editor over this. She claimed the somewhat recent changes to virtually every newspaper site, splitting every article into at least two pages, was for readability purposes. I argued that, when sitting back in your chair reading an article, the last thing you want to do is pixel-hunt for the "next page;" all you want to do is mousewheel down. Readability is harmed. Yes, it can make sense for very long articles, but papers like the NY Post don't have long articles, just short ones chopped up for ad views.
Eventually other people were agreeing with me, that the article being all on one page easily trumps it being split up.
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5-01-2008 @ 11:59PM
sitruc said...
I was in a similar argument on the Washington Post website... Of course it went nowhere and most people I know just click on the printable version so they won't have to keep clicking.
5-01-2008 @ 9:07AM
Simon Wakefield said...
Its a British List and us Brits really have no clue who Johnny Carson is or Mary Tyler Moore or Andy Griffith, hell even Dick Van Dyke is really only known here as either the guy who did the worst English accent ever recorded to film in Mary Poppins or to Students for Diagnosis Murder.
Their show's are never going to make a list when they are unknowns. TBH M*A*S*H is the only show you listed which has the public awareness in this country to have a chance of being included.
There are a few weird choices (DS9 being the lowest ranked ST's in the top50 for example) and certainly alot of shows get their rankings on reputation rather than the actual quality of the show (Simpsons is the perfect example here, at its Peak its worthy of the top spot but it hasnt been at its peak for a fair while so should have adjusted down some spots). Its also perhaps a bit UScentric at the expense of some top quality UK shows (This Life, Black Books, Coupling, Teachers are just some of the shows that are missing that would have deserved a place as much as some shows such as Prision break which had half a excellent season - I say half as the prison break side of season 1 was great, the b story was awful, and then 2 seasons that the episodes ranged from great to poor)
The full list BTW is
50) Quantum Leap
49) Prison Break
48) Veronica Mars
47) ST:DS9
46) Sex and the City
45) Farscape
44) Cracker
43) ST:TOS
42) Only Fools And Horses
41) Band of Brothers
40) Life On Mars
39) Monty Python
38) Curb Your Enthusiasm
37) ST:TNG
36) Father Ted
35) Alias
34) Frasier
33) CSI
32) Babylon 5
31) Deadwood
30) Dexter
29) ER
28) Fawlty Towers
27) Six Feet Under
26) Red Dwarf
25) Futurama
24) Twin Peaks
23) The Office
22) The Shield
21) Angel
20) Blackadder
19) Scrubs
18) Arrested Development
17) South Park
16) Doctor Who
15) Heroes
14) Firefly
13) Battlestar Galactica
12) Family Guy
11) Seinfeld
10) Spaced
09) X-Files
08) The Wire
07) Friends
06) 24
05) Lost
04) West Wing
03) The Sopranos
02) Buffy
01) Simpsons
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5-01-2008 @ 10:23AM
bcarter3 said...
Thanks so much for posting the full list, Simon!
5-01-2008 @ 9:16AM
JT said...
Buffy n.2???
No need to browse further anyway...
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5-01-2008 @ 9:45AM
Ryan said...
Seriously. It should've been number one! Grr.
5-01-2008 @ 9:32AM
Andy said...
This is at least a month old
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5-01-2008 @ 10:04AM
Alex K. said...
As long as "The Sopranos" are just two spots away from the one they deserve.
http://thenthecountry.blogspot.com
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5-01-2008 @ 10:27AM
S John Massoud said...
You're forgetting All in the Family, Law and Order, Bonanza, Gunsmoke. Law and Order has been on 18 years now, and Gunsmoke lasted 20. They must have done something right?
This list is just foolish.
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5-01-2008 @ 10:47AM
newmiyamoto said...
That empire list is far from perfect, especially as it has an unhealthy obsession with shows from the noughties but NONE of the shows you deemed to be missing are even worthy of a top 100 (M*A*S*H might be worthy for other people but I found it to be drivel of the highest order) let alone a top 50 and to actually suggest Red Dwarf and OFaH, easily two of the finest comedies ever made do not deserve to be there is just blind sided idiocy of the highest order.
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5-01-2008 @ 10:54AM
Scott said...
Even the Emmys are more on-target than this list.
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5-01-2008 @ 10:56AM
chief said...
How come they mention the "new" Doctor Who series but no mention of the IMO much, much better old-school series?
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5-01-2008 @ 11:10AM
Tim said...
I'm just glad they included Deep Space Nine, the best of all the Star Trek series, on the list. It's an excellent series that gets overlooked on this "best of" rankings.
Too many Trekkies (Trekkers?) complain that it steers too far from Roddenberry's original concept but that's what makes it so good. It features hero's with flaws and less than perfect conclusions instead of featuring a ship full of goody two shoes and lot's of contrived endings.
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5-01-2008 @ 11:23AM
pacheco said...
This is a decent list for "modern era" shows, not all-time. But Prison Break? And Seinfeld didn't even crack the top ten? Please. Though I do love a few surprise inclusions, like Veronica Mars (boo yah).
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5-02-2008 @ 5:34PM
Simon Wakefield said...
Seinfeld has never been given a decent run in the UK. The BBC had it in late night slots as have Virgin 1 more recently. Between the BBC and Virgin 1 airings it was on Paramount but thats a pay tv channel so has limited reach.
As for others who say things like "wheres classic who" or "wheres show x and y from the 60/70/80's" its simply that its a viewers poll and that gives new shows an advantage as theres more chance of everyone voting having seen them. We havent traditionally been a nation like you lot in the US where there was a mass market for syndicating reruns of shows, our series don't run as long so havent traditional had enough episodes to make it worthwhile and we didnt until recently have the channels to support it so older shows were not seen by later generations as much. With more channels and the rise of video discs this is probally changing
5-01-2008 @ 12:18PM
wilco said...
You can discuss the list and its in- and exclusions all you want, but this list was made by the readers. Anyone taking the time to register had a chance to vote and this is the result. Pretty much everyone whose top ten differs from this one will have something to say about it, including me. Buffy is way overrated!
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5-01-2008 @ 1:01PM
MERVE-THE-PERVE said...
I don't really care about no damn Brits list of best shows. I've got my own list as all of you have your own lists. I bet there are no 2 lists of ours that are the same. Its all based on our own opinion. Hey, lets start our own list - "The World's 50 Greatest Revolutionary War Asskickings. #1. America kicks British Ass."
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