TVSquad

Fantastic episode (and no Mitch... yay!).

You could go out of your head trying to interpret everything in John's sermon. (Someone transcribed the entire thing on another forum.)

But it's pretty clear that the line and the circle represent zeroes and ones, the digital information in, for instance, Cass' videocamera. Milch is telling us that that's how the New Good Word is going to reach us nowadays. So don't be surprised if John's gospel -- the part he wants all of us to hear, anyway -- comes to us in the form of a video on YouTube. Possibly out of the mouth of Will Ferrell's little landlady, Pearl.

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All I can say is THANK GOD FOR DVR! This show fascinates me on some strange level. I have to go back and watch again to get all the fine print. John went off with ramblings and twisted references from previous episodes so deep that I can't even wrap my head around it all. It's like "Twin Peaks" in a way. (Younger readers won't get that reference. It was a show in the late 1980's)

Like the reviewer, I was getting a little disappointed after the episode last week, but they blew me out of the water this week.

John's "Father" has to be some kind of twist that nobody will ever guess. I am sure, being HBO and Hollywierd, it's not God.

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And one more thing... I think John may be Autistic.

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I have bailed out of this show after the first three episodes... it's a terrible show

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Didn't Ed ALSO post last week, saying that he gave up on JFC after 3 episodes (precisely why his comments are irrelevant) and thought it was a terrible show.

I couldn't disagree more. I felt the 3rd episode was better than anything I saw on the last TWO seasons of The Sopranos.

JFC IS somewhat reminiscent of Twin Peaks, in that it has several extremely unusual and interesting characters. Ed O'Neill was great last night. (I think he may have killed "Ed Bundy" permanently). And just like I loved the Charlie Utter on Deadwood, I am really enjoying Dayton Callie's Freddy character as well.

Knowing JFC may not find a audience and thereby not get picked up for a second season, I hope the series can make it's "statement" within this season's run. Although, obviously hope it goes for as many seasons as they can maintain the quality.

Nice cameo by Paula (Trixie) Malcomson (?) last night. Hopefully we'll get to see Robin Weigert in a future episode as well.

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Yes I did !!! The less people watch it the better it is for my HBO subscription...

I believe Showtime has better TV series than anything currently on HBO.

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I'm not sure what to say. Shaun will be gone soon was in the preview. I'm wondering if that means he dies for good. Maybe that is why they hired someone that is more surfer than actor.

de Mornay is still killing me with her approach to Cissy. While there probably people in the world like that, I sure haven't met one. It just doesn't come across as real.

The episode itself was genius. I love the writing, I love all the minor characters. I'm wondering WHAT they got on the camera, or is that not what he meant? It sure seemed like it.

I look forward to the future episodes.

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Nice that you glossed over the big reveal that Cissy is an incestuous-pedophile.

John has crossed the time barrier in his monologue by showing his knowledge of Aleman and that new guy.

This show is well acted but if they're going where I think there going then I will curse everyone who did this show.

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I thought John’s monologue tried to convey to the characters that which separates us from the other creatures of the world and give them hope that their pasts do not define their futures.
He spoke of big things and huge things and used fire and the wheel to show the contrast between the two. The circle and the line are the building blocks we used to write on fur hides and in the mud, which was big. But it wasn’t until we wrote on walls that information achieved persistence and became huge. The same thing goes for the camera and the internet being huge. I kind of thought he was getting to the medium is the message philosophy.

I also thought it was interesting when he was talking about the man that heard his father wrote on the wall, meaning religion, which was huge.

What he told the characters was pretty self explanatory. Most of them live with a dark secret that has left them emotionally crippled. Their dark secrets don’t have to be recorded in history that way, nor does it have to define their futures.

I think it’s interesting that science fiction/mythology shows such as Lost and JFC speak to such a large audience. Joseph Campbell told us long ago that our own mythology had became outdated and that artists needed to come up with something new in order for people to be reached. Here we are 20 years later and we see that people really are starved for a message that helps them understand the meaning of life, freedom of choice vs. destiny, etc.

I will have to look to see if Campbell ever discussed whether we needed a new medium as well as a myth to fill us spiritually.

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Maybe I'm missing something but isn't John Jessus - JFC Jessus Fucking Christ - I feel like it's scary obviouse but no one seems to ever mention it - this was a really good episode and a great show if they can keep it up - these show too often have lame endings

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Is there anywhere to get caught up? I do not have HBO and have been wanting to watch this from the beginning.

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I can't get enough of this show. It's just beautiful, all of it. The cinematography, the soundtrack, the way the scenes just go on and on and on and never peak but just keep coming strong, the way everyone in the enormous cast manages to get together in some way in almost every episode. And that's what John's doing, he's bringing people together.

I love Eric M's take on it, I think he's got a good thing with the circle and line meaning information and the spread of it. I notice that's also what John's drawing in the dirt with his foot, which he seems to do a lot.

Here's what I don't understand: I thought Bill's wife died hitting her head on the steps, according to Butchie, but John seemed to be saying that Bill is the one who hit his head on the steps. Can anybody take a stab at explaining that?

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@ Karen

The only way to watch a past HBO episode is to catch a rerun/marathon (if they even have them), find a friend that has them recorded, wait for the DVD, or download it off the internet (the non-legal method).

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Until this episode, I understood that John was either an alien or an angel. Now it's clear that John Cincinnati is the nom-de-show for Jesus Christ. I've really tried to like this show, but it's grating in a way that Deadwood never was, even with Deadwood's persistent f-bombs. Deadwood's writing was Shakespearean in its language. John from Cincinnati's writing is several leagues below that. The writers have gone out of their way to make all the characters in this show as broken and unsympathetic as possible. And they've succeeded.

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Who is Mr. Rawlings? Who was the dead guy on the toilet?

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John makes the peace sign with his foot in the dirt - watch it again, that's what it is....

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It's not a piece sign that john is tracing. It is more like a stick figure with no arms. O-< The -< are not inside the circle he traces.

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D.C. - The dead guy on the toilet was the man that molested the lottery winner.

John was drawing a stick figure with no arms, not a peace sign. There are pics floating around with cast members wearing hats and t-shirts with the armless figures on them.

Cissy is my step mother, without the incest, but the character is her.

My personal take is that mankind is at a crossroads and this family/group was chosen to represent mankind. Each one of them is an archtype and, with the help of John from Cincinatti, will either show the good in mankind, or failing, unleash the end of days. JFC is either an angel or the second coming.

Just my take.

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I found John’s speech transcribed here:

http://www.hbo.com/johnfromcincinnati/inside/?ntrack_para1=insidehbo2_image

I’m going to take a shot at deciphering it.

Everything hinges on what it means to “hear John’s Father.” If we can figure that out, then we’ve got the whole thing. I’m not sure “John’s Father” should be taken literally. I think to know or hear “John’s Father” is to achieve a great spiritual understanding of some sort.

JFC: "If my words are yours, can you hear my Father? Can Bill know my Father, keeping his eye on me? Can I bone Kai and Butchie know my Father instead?"

John only uses words he gets from others. So he is saying, “Using only your own words repeated back to you, can I communicate the message I am here to deliver to you? Can you read through what I am saying and get to the heart of why I am here?”

When he says, “Can Bill know my Father, keeping his eye on me?” The action “keeping his eye on me” is a descriptor, not a clue. It's like a native American name - Bill Keeping His Eye On Me. He’s just asking, “Can Bill achieve spiritual understanding?”

Can Kai, aka “I Bone Kai”, become enlightened?

Butchie Instead – Instead is a state of Butchie. Butchie in stead. Butchie keeping steady. Can Butchie achieve enlightenment keeping his current state of being? I don’t know Butchie Instead.

I don’t think John From Cincinnati is Jesus (although I do think the initials JFC are intentional) or a second coming, but I do think he’s a savior. I think he wants to bring people together and help them heal each other. Somehow in every episode, a large portion of the cast congregates in the motel parking lot at some point.

JFC: "My Father's shy doing his business. Kai helps my Father dump out. Bill takes a shot. Shaunie is much improved."

The path to understanding is not always clear. Kai helped “John’s Father” by helping John. Or, Kai helped John’s Father by telling Cissy to let Shaun see Tina (his mother) instead of keeping them apart. “John’s Father” wants these people to work it out and be together.

Bill took a shot - Bill was the first to take a leap of faith and believe in a mystical, spiritual higher power that he did not understand by taking Zippy to the hospital to kiss (and cure) Shaun. It worked - Shaunie is much improved.

About Tina – when her character was introduced in the previous episode, I empathized with Cissy and did not want her to get to Shaun. However, every character on the show has some fucked-up past that either haunts them internally or dogs them externally, and in this episode we saw that Tina is human and wants to get beyond her past like the rest of them, and we saw that Cissy is not in a position to throw stones herself, having molested Butchie.

JFC: "Joe is a Doubting Thomas. Joe will save Not-Aleman. Joe will bring his buddies home. This is how Freddy relaxes. Cup-o'joe, and Winchell's variety dozen."

Apparently, John can see events in the future. I’m not sure who “Not Aleman” is. Is it the Mexican that stabbed John? I think the Winchell's variety dozen is this eclectic, diverse group of people that John wants to bring together.

JFC: "Mitch catches a good wave. Mitch wipes out. Mitch wipes out Cissy. Cissy shows Butchie how to do that. Cissy wipes Butchie out. Butchie hurts Barry's head. Mister Rollins comes in Barry's face. My Father runs the Mega-Millions."

Mitch was lucky to have gained success with his surfing career early in life, but he was injured, and he let it ruin his marriage with Cissy because he could never get over it and became a different person.

When Cissy molested Butchie, obviously that drove Butchie to abuse drugs.

Butchie became a bully and beat up Barry when they were teenagers (Barry mentions this in episode one).

I guess Mr. Rollins is the guy who sexually abused Barry in room 24.

This is clearly the cycle of hurt, passing from one person to another. You hurt, so you hurt others, then they hurt and hurt others, etc.

JFC: "Fur is big. Mud is big. The stick is big. The word is big. Fire is huge. The wheel is huge. The line and circle are big. On the wall, the line and circle are huge. On the wall, the man at the wall makes a man from the circle and line. The man at the wall makes a Word on the wall from the circle and line. The Word on the wall hears my Father."

This appears to be about technology, language, literacy and enlightenment. When we were cavemen, clothing, tools and language (fur, sticks, the word) were big developments, but fire and the wheel were huge in comparison. The line and circle are the elements of written language. On the wall, the line and circle were used to draw cave pictures, the earliest form of written language. Fur and sticks helped us survive, but fire and language brought us together. We would congregate around fire for heat and food, and there we began to communicate and understand each other.

When “the Word on the wall hears my Father,” I’m guessing that’s the beginning of religion and spiritual enlightenment.

JFC: "The zeroes and ones make the Word in Cass's camera. In the Word on the wall that hears my-Father-in-Cass's-camera, the good one Mitch catches doesn't wipe Cissy out. In the-Word-that-hears-my-Father, Cissy shows Butchie something else. In-my-Father's-Word, Cissy shows Butchie in Shaun. In-my-Father's-Word, Tina raises Shaun at lunch. In Cass's-camera, Butchie lays the court out for Barry, and Mister Rollins watches, and he doesn't come on Barry's face. In Cass's-camera, Butchie knows Kai kept the faith. In-my-Father's-Word, the Wave lifts them up."

The zeroes and ones are the lines and circles from the wall. They are the same, just new technology.

I’m not sure what Cass’ camera has to do with all of this, but they’re all the same thing – John’s Father’s Word, Cass’ camera – he’s describing an ideal world in which we didn’t dwell on our private shame causing us to hurt each other. In this ideal world, Mitch didn’t turn into a self-absorbed dick after his big injury, Cissy does not molest Butchie, Butchie has a normal adolescence instead of turning to drugs, Tina doesn’t go into porn but works a normal job (seeing Shaun on her lunch breaks). Butchie is allowed to help with the landscaping work in the courtyard (HBO's episode summary pointed out that the attorney Dickstein was too uptight to risk Butchie’s mistakes when Butchie tried to help). Mr. Rollins doesn’t molest Barry.

The Wave is obviously a metaphor for divinity of some sort. A spiritual connection among all people that binds us together, so that we all go up together or we all bring each other down. We’re like the audience doing the Wave at a football game, but on a spiritual level.

JFC: "In Cass's camera, Bill doesn't bump his head on the stairs. In Cass's-camera, as long as he's being stupid, Bill gives Lois a kiss."

I think we’ll find out more about this when we find out how Lois died. Previously, I thought Lois died by bumping her head on the stairs, which is why Bill covers them in bubble-wrap. Bill must have knocked himself unconscious on the stairs at a time when Lois needed him to save her life. In JFC's ideal Father/camera world, Bill would have been able to help Lois like he helped Shaunie (giving a kiss from Zippy).

All of these characters seem to have one crucial, life-altering moment that they agonize over, a memory that haunts, cripples and corrodes them.

JFC: "In His-Word-in-Cass's-camera, the Internet is big. Nine-Eleven is big, but not every towel-head is eradicated. In His-Word, We are coming Nine-Eleven-Fourteen."

The Internet is another significant milestone in human existence that will change humankind. It has the potential to bring many people together at once. 9/11 is our national "personal tragedy." 9/11 is used as a reason to go to war, it brought us together as a nation but also tears us apart as a global community. We fight in the name of 9/11, but this fighting only causes more hurt, more fighting, more terrorism, more war. As a nation, we can’t let it go the same way these characters can't let their own tragedies go. In "Cass' camera," we don't attempt to erradicate the world of "towel heads," we find another solution -- we try to understand each other and get along.

9/11 is big – it’s our national tragedy. But what is 9-11-14? Could it be a global tragedy that allows us to overcome our wars and fighting amongst humans and bind together as a species?

JFC: "In my-Father's-Word, Bill sees how Freddy relaxes. In Cass's-camera, Ramon wants to know who's hungry, in the courtyard and Room Forty-Five."

Bill and Freddy are apparent enemies – the cop and the crook. Yet when they put aside their ideological differences and decide to band together for a common cause, they are not only able to thrive but they make music together. And how does Freddy relax? He plays “My Favorite Things.” Everyone on the show has a memory that is incredibly painful. As the song suggests (“When I’m feeling sad / I simply remember my favorite things / And then I don’t feel so bad”), the answer to everyone’s collective agony could be as simple as forgetting the past.

Ramon wants to know who's hungry - not only in the courtyard, but in Room 45. Not only should we be concerned with the hunger of ourselves, our friends and family, but those people we cannot see as well.

JFC: "In my-Father's-Word-to-come-in-Cass's-camera, Doctor Smith calls Ocean Properties. In Cass's-camera-to-come, my Father stares Not Aleman down, and Freddy sees Bill much-improved."

In the near future, Dr. Smith calls Ocean Properties. I hope he is not calling with bad news. In the preview for next week, John said, “Shaun’s gone.”

In the future, Not-Aleman will meet his fate, and perhaps Bill will become enlightened?

JFC: "You will not note my-Father's-Word, nor remember Cass's-camera, but you will not forget what we did here."

No one will remember this out-of-body courtyard BBQ, but they will feel it and it will resonate.

Now that I've just written all of this another thought just occurred -- what if "John's Father's Word" aka "Cass' Camera" is not John's ideal world but rather an idealized past each character wishes they could go back and create, and thus they cannot move forward?

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@ TravisH

Wow man, nice summary. Very interesting points. Thanks :)

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