TVSquad

CLASSIC: Barney Miller, Taxi
NON-CLASSIC: Night Court, The Jeffersons

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Okay... so because you're apparently about 5-7 years older than me, you're telling me that my nostalgia is no longer valid?

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You might rile people up with this one.

I'll start by saying, I'm fully comfortable with the fact that my old favorites don't have to be yours. And anything regarded a classic doesn't have to be a favorite of mine. I recognize Addams Family is a classic, though it wouldn't even rank on my list of 75 favorite sitcoms. That's just me. I'm a Munsters person. (Love Charles Addams though. Somehow he ranks as one of my favorite cartoonists. Go figure.)

I'm secure enough to recognize a classic when I see one, even if I don't like it. It's subjective vs. objective.

I'm with you though. Watching Nick@Nite and TV Land laud 80s and 90s pap as classic television doesn't simply age me. It diminishes the value of their former library when any program 10 years or older can be venerated.

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It seems like you're saying, the shows I watched when I was young are classics; the shows you all watched when you were young are junk. I don't care about any of the shows on your "classic" list. Neither does anyone else; that's why they stopped showing them on TV and started showing stuff audiences now want to see.

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"Green Acres" is classic television!?

There are a few obvious "classics" ("Wonder Years," "Seinfeld," and "Andy Griffith" jump to mind), but this is purely subjective. I was pretty much raised on "Night Court" reruns (Fox has NEVER had anything to show during the day), and it's become "classic" to me just based on it's eminent rewatchability. I hated "Home Improvement," but I mean -- the show was top rated for something like 10 years, so clearly it touched a number of lives.

I find "Different Strokes" unwatchable, but it's Classic TV? "Doogie Howser" was fun and heartwarming, but it isn't? "Golden Girls"? "Malcolm In The Middle"?

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I know Home Improvement isn't Seinfeld or Mary Tyler Moore, but it is what it is, and what it is was the show my family watched together for like 6 or 7 years when I was a kid. It makes me happy to see it, because it reminds me of when I didn't worry about bills or whether or not my boss will be a prick today. That is why that show is OK.

Although I could see why you could be annoyed by it. My wife really used to like Who's The Boss?, which, while I was 8 I thought was amusing, I really, really, REALLY hate now.

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Horse-hockey!

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I'd be interested in other's views on what makes an old show a classic show. The idea that a show is a classic if multiple generations get enjoyment from it is a good start. Your second def - parents can enjoy with their children - I think is very narrowing. The third definition I'm hoping was there tongue in cheek - Addam's Family springs to mind as a not bad adaptation.

From a TV Land perspective, probably all classic has to mean is it was popular in its first run, we can get rights to it fairly cheaply, and it will draw in enough of an audience to make it worth putting in the schedule.

From my perspective classic means I either enjoyed watching it when it was new and it's held up well (MASH) or it has aged so badly it's absolutely hilarious now (Star Trek).

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I hardly ever watch the channel, but does TV Land even claim that these shows are "classic" tv?

When American Movie Classics confusingly rebranded themselves as AMC (three letters that now stand for nothing), a lot of people started wondering how Keanu Reeves movies qualified under any definition of classic, but they had actually just stopped aiming for classic entirely.

http://popculturejunk.blogspot.com/

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I completely agree with the author. However, I'll bet that generationally, in my late 30s, I'm closer to his age than to the age of the commenters who are offended that their crappy TV shows are being called crappy and not "classic" just because they grew up with them.

I think there's a HUGE difference between "classic" TV and "comfort" TV. I'm sorry TV Land decided to go for the latter instead of the former. I happened to see a few "I Love Lucy" episodes recently; this show was WAY before my time, and has plenty of outdated husband/wife stereotypes, but I enjoyed the hell out of it. I've also just started watching a DVD set of "Mary Tyler Moore"'s first season (produced the year after I was born) and I find that incredibly entertaining and funny, too. I wish "The Odd Couple" and "Get Smart" were easily available on TV, because they hold up well, too.

How about one TV network for real classics, and another for "comfort" TV showing whatever was popular when the 20-somethings were growing up?

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CLASSIC: Parker Lewis Can't Lose, Small Wonder, Just the 10 Of Us, Mr. Wizard
NOT CLASSIC: Hill Street Blues, Dallas, Dynasty

It's all subjective, people. Anyone who claims that TV (or music or movies) has an absolute goodness or badness... well, probably writes for TV Squad.

But, feel free to keep pretending that your opinions were written in stone ages ago.

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I agree with most of what you wrote, Paul. But I would have to add that classic shows should be just as appealing now as they were in their prime (time). From that standpoint I think you might be giving Wings a tough break as it was a really well done show. Very subjective topic though, so I can see how we won't all agree on this one.

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It does seem to me that your view of "classic" is a little Baby-boomer centric... Quite frankly, I would put many of the funnier moments from Night Court against Soap or Taxi with confidence.

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So, are you saying that classic TV is like pornography? Difficult to define but you know it when you see it.

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Man. I have to agree to a certain extent. I loved Nick at night growing up. I got to see all the old shows from the 60's and 70's--and they where really great. Regardless of being comedies--they actually had quite a bit of substance to them (well except Get Smart--but it was action packed so I liked it for that). The idea that I'd see commercials from that era was novel too.
But now--they air Fresh Prince and Roseanne. I felt that these were ground breaking shows but were easily found in syndication elsewhere. Shows that appeared in the 90's will be classics--someday--but I don't care to see them now.
I always thought that they should air shows that where at least 20 years and older.
And TV land is something else entirely. I'd like to see them air classic shows in today's format--a novel concept that might work. Daytime soaps and talk shows from 30 years ago. Children's hour (like fat albert), Comedies, then dramas/action hours and finally late-night (carson, sullivan).

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Pedantic Detroit-related correction. Bill Kennedy never aired on WXYZ. That was Rita Bell's domain. Bill aired on CKLW and WKBD.

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I miss the OLD Nick@Night...in the 90s with I Love Lucy and The Jeffersons and Wonder Years. I may only be 19, but I have seen Fresh Prince too many times and the same for Roseanne. I am sure Nick@Night probably want younger viewers, but isn't that what Nickelodeon, the N, and Nicktoons channels are for?

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To me, classic takes you back to a time that you enjoy and that's why TV is so subjective. I was born in 1980; therefore, sitcoms like "It's A Living," "Too Close For Comfort," "Married With Children," etc. are classic. The kitschy sitcoms you mention are just old.

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If you watch Green Acres for what it is, and not what you might think it was, it's a clear classic. This show was meta-textual long before anyone else thought to be. It was absurdism made real. and this isn't just "comfort tv" talking -- there was a lot of craft that went into Green Acres. The Beverly Hillbillies is comfort TV -- Petticoat Junction sucked -- Green Acres was a classic.

and sometimes you had to be there to understand what makes something a classic. yes, a true classic should still work after its time too, but sometimes it's what it created that makes it a classic. There's also the problem that shows like All in the Family stick around too long, and people who only know the later seasons have a different view than people who were there at the beginning. But Different Strokes was never good. ever.

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I see what you are getting at Paul, but your argument seems to simultaneously prove and disprove the classification of "classic".

There are so many ways to look at it. Let's look at American half-hour comedies by decade:

1) Shows that were truly the pinnacle of broadcast TV at the time.

- 50's: The Honeymooners/I Love Lucy
- 60's: Get Smart/The Dick Van Dyke Show
- 70's: The Odd Couple/Sanford & Son
- 80's: Night Court/Cheers
- 90's: Seinfeld/Frasier
- 00's: 30 Rock/The Office

Of course, this would fall more into the category of "critical acclaim". At the same time, these shows were able to surprise us with their writing and acting chops.

2) Shows that seem timeless aka perpetually relevant:

- 50's: The Honeymooners/I Love Lucy
- 60's: Bewitched/The Dick Van Dyke Show
- 70's: All in the Family/The Mary Tyler Moore Show
- 80's: Cheers/The Golden Girls
- 90's: Seinfeld/Frasier
- 00's: The King of Queens/Arrested Development

Twenty years from now, you could watch these shows and knowingly laugh. You could probably reenact them twenty years from now in current garb and people would think they were new.

3) Shows that were groundbreaking:

- 50's: Burns & Allen/The Jack Benny Show
- 60's: The Addams Family/Hogan's Heroes
- 70's: Soap/All in the Family
- 80's: The Cosby Show/The Golden Girls
- 90's: Seinfeld/Roseanne
- 00's: Arrested Development/My Name is Earl

These will always stand out as "something new and exciting" aka shows that had impact on the future makers of shows. These shows also took risks and succeeded.

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Of course, these are my opinions; the point I am trying to make outside of subjectivity is that there is no definition of "classic TV". If you want to look by the numbers of the lists above, only one show appears on all of my three lists: Seinfeld.

Several appear on more than once.

With the birth of cable, DVD's, etc...you seemed to make the point that the vantage point for "classic" has perpetually shifted. At the same time, you used theme songs as a guide. Do you really think that "Friends", one of the most successful (and VASTLY overrated) shows of all time even wants to be remembered by its godawful theme song? The theme song era ended in the mid-70's.

Also, the TVLand of today is rather different from the TVLand of yesterday, which in turn is rather different from three VHF and maybe five UHF channels. The rules of syndication seem to have changed also. Moving target, guys and gals.

"Classic" is subjective. Perhaps we should be talking about "groundbreaking", "timeless", or "critically acclaimed". These aren't cars, they are scripts and performances.

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