TVSquad

Okay, the last book I would buy is a book about a website, and I'm not even sure who thought it would be a good idea to write/publish it, but as someone who participates on a number of TWoP's boards and often goes to the site to read recaps and viewer comments, I have to say that I don't recognize the site at ALL from reading this post. I don't think all posters are snarky, hate TV, or adore Michael Ian Black. The site is too huge to really make valid sweeping comments, in my opinion. Each board is going to be different, but I can say that the people who post on the ones I choose to read seem to enjoy TV quite a bit.

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what, no bob newhart drinking game? i love lucy wasn't hilarious? wow, calm down oldy olderton.

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Well, Bob, success!

I've heard grumblings of their site, but never found any motivation to manually enter in the address when it popped up. Now after reading your review, I'll never bother. And thanks to the fact that you didn't link them, my lazy ass never will.

That's a lot of nevers.

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What interests me is that even though TWP has the reputation of being the home of snark (for good reason), the discussion boards of individual shows tend to be the exact opposite. Oh, there are occasional shows that inspire hatred, but check the boards for House, or Desperate Housewives, or something like that, right after an episode has aired. A typical post is "ummm, I do love me some Marcia Cross," or "this is the best show ever, and that was the best episode ever, and don't you love Marcia Cross." The worst for this was the Joan of Arcadia board ... even as they disliked the second season, they lurved them some Amber Tamblyn.

There is plenty of great stuff at TWP ... I visit there regularly, myself. But it's definitely not all snark.

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TWOP is definitely elitist (They don't even review Nip/Tuck, for whatever reason, and they stopped reviewing Rescue Me because they didn't like it anymore for some shitty reason). I almost didn't want to read it anymore at all after I found out about that. But the reviews are generally very funny, and in depth (The Gallactica ones are scary, in many ways. Just read on of them.) but on the other hand, they are elitist bastards.

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I think that the book has something to do with the partenship with Yahoo - looking for new revenue streams on an established brand.

I am a huge fan of both TVS and TwoP. And while I agree that there is some (maybe alot of) 'tude over there, if you deny there is 'tude here as well, I think you're mistaken.

And they may be elitist, but most of the recaps are f-ing funny. Laugh out loud funny. If they would stick to recapping they'd be fine.

But I trust you Bob. If you say the book itself sucks, I won't buy it. The review is a success!

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Hello pot! Call the kettle much?

A snarky review on someone's website griping about snarky reviews on someone else's website? How ironic!

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Damn you kids, get off Bob's lawn!

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The book was okay. Parts were amusing, but it was lacking a lot. I didn't like the encyclopedia format.

As for the website, I've been a fan from back from before they changed their name to Television Without Pity. The site is by no means perfect, but it can be a lot of fun. It's hit and miss with the recappers, some are really funny or insiteful, some are just boring. And sure they recap some shows, and not others, but no matter what they chose I'm sure someone won't be happy. Also, I don't do the message boards there, I'm just referring to the recaps.

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Having known two of TwoP's moderators for some time I can assure you that their site is not about television, community or anything beyond assuring a cash cow. I'll lose an old friend for this, but the moderators keep a "slam list" of their posters and make fun of the "frequent pests." The members who gleefully try to curry favor with Sarah, Tara and Linda are called "the ass kissers" and the "tattling hausfraus" when they report other posters for "being snotty" or "starting a post with 'um...'" NOT a site for intelligent people, and the book is its excrement.

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Uhh seriously, TWoP's episode recaps are about 5000 light years ahead of TV Squad's. Miss Alli's recaps of Amazing Race and Survivor are absolutely hilarious.

I'm not sure if you wrote this because they're competitors, or because you're just grumpy. Or both.

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Derek, we've said this to the readership a hundred times... *we don't do recaps*. We review each episode as if the person reading it has already seen it.

To be honest, I found TWOP's recaps to be hilarious in the past, but they wore on me after a while and I stopped reading them (This was long before I joined TVS). At this point, I'd rather see straightforward reviews tinged with humor like we, TV Guide, and other sites do. I just don'it have the time or patience to try and decipher the TWOP recapper's opinion from his or her flurry of snarky jokes.

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I wasn't going to buy the book, cause God know's I spend quite enough time on TV already. I'm here commenting on this aren't I? Anyway, I find TWOP's site just delightful, especialy after I've watched the episode a recap is about. The recapper tends to catch a lot of inconsistancies, or plot holes that I don't, or articulate's an impression I had, but in a much funnier fashion.

I think they like TV, but have no patience for sloppy stories, continuity, or production shortcutting. That's not a bad thing in my opinion, especially when it's done in a witty manner.

Love you too TV Squad, just in a different way, for different things.

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Wow, Bob, for someone as snarky as you, you'd think you'd have been introduced to the concept of sarcasm by now. You should check into it!

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Wow, Bob--your love for Studio 60 makes a lot more sense now that I know you hate TWoP.

I won't--and don't--make the mistake of confusing TWoP's recaps with TVSquad's "reviews," but seriously: you think the TWoPpers hate TV? No, they hate BAD TV, Bob.

And if you think the site is all snark, then you are seriously missing the divine Jacob's recaps of BSG and Doctor Who, which are profound and poetic and reverent, while not cutting slack for when things don't make thematic sense.

I like TV Squad, but TWoP is the love of my life. It's best, really, for reverential recaps of brilliant shows--like Jacob's, or Couch Baron's for the first season of "Veronica Mars"--and evil recaps of truly suck-ass shows, like Strega's for "Jericho" or the late, lamented recaps of Sara M for the repulisive "7th Heaven."

But, yeah--Bob, your comments just come off sounding like sour grapes.

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What I LIKE about TWoP is the fact that posters can say exactly what they think about a show: bad writing, bad acting, bad cinematography, and it is mostly accepted (at least the forums I've read and frequent). Snarky? sure, but I'll take that over the fawning, "don't mention anything negative" boards of some shows that are found elsewhere. I like to say exactly what I'm thinking, and I'll read someone else's opposite opinion. I haven't been around the boards but 2 years so I know nothing about the moderators or founders and their intention, I just like interacting on the boards and I appreciate the rules because I don't have to wade thru pages and pages of "oh yeah, mee too" crap.

All this said, however, I won't buy the book or bother to read it. Just don't understand the purpose - aside from the almighty dollar.

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Here's the thing, though: if you read the recaps, I think you can get a sense that these people really believe that TV matters. It matters so much that they hire people to write thousands and thousands of words about all kinds of shows--not just the critically acclaimed ones, either (don't they pick what shows they keep covering by how many people read the recaps?)--and analyze them scene by scene. I do loathe runaway, elitist mods, although I can't speak to the boards at TWOP because I don't really hang out there. But I do read the recaps, partly because hell, I hate to love Top Model and the recaps crack me up, and partly because I think there's something to hiring people to critique TV passionately and smartly. I don't think that's so different from what happens here.

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There's nothing "delightful" about TWoP. SOME of their recaps are entertaining. SOME of their forum Mods are amusing and fair. But the vast majority of Recaps, Mods and individual Posters are cliquish and immature. One only needs to venture into the Supernatural or Prison Break forums and read post after post of "SQUEEEE! Dean is soooo HAWT!" and other crap to know that these are NOT posts encouraging intelligent discussion of television. For all the Mod warnings about how it's "Television WITHOUT Pity" (God!) and how TWoP is NOT a fan site, the bottom line is if you are part of the clique and tow the party line, you will have no problems. Yes, you can say exactly what you think about a show, as long as you are agreeing with the majority. If you hold an opinion that isn't in the majority (or an opinion that differs at all from certain Mods) you will be "handled". I grew out of that kind of "mean girls mentality" when I got out of Jr. High.

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Can't wait for the TWOP rebuttle to Bob's rant.

Pot\Kettle\Black

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I love TWoP and TV Squad. Yes, both of them! But I have to say that I didn't like the book at all. I bought it as soon as it was released and was looking forward to it. It was a huge disappointment. I think maybe part of the problem is that the book was written by the TWoP founders, not the best TWoP recappers.

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